258 Comments
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KIDS FIRST's avatar

It’s a form of “queering” everything: active subversion & rejection of any sort of societal standard or norm.

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

Yes, that is certainly part of it! It is festering in a void left open by an absence of authoritative role models.

Illusivillusion's avatar

Its actually not a problem at all. Rapist are a problem, parents are a problem. People who have an opinion about this are statistically more likely to be a problem. People who pull styles from all of human history to not look like the American carbon copy npc that has a style thats younger than the USA and are unnatural to the human body.

You're just bias towards your conditioning. These people are statistically less likely to be fascist racist Rapist child molestor unlike the white man with short hair no piercings no tattoos, only where clothes/styles that are less than a hundred years old, these are the people most likely to be child molesters and Rapist, racist, ableist misogynists. So in reality its the right wing average political church going country music listening white american who lacks good role models.

Wendy Elizabeth Williams's avatar

Yep, the end of your sentence. Exactly!

Lon Guyland's avatar

A relative works at a small-animal veterinary clinic where the staff skews heavily female — that’s common these days.

The tattoos, the piercings, the colored hair and the weird lifestyles are the norm, and seem to go hand-in-hand with psychotropic “medication” and heavy social media use. At least that’s the observation of my relative.

Lynn's avatar

They look like FREAKS!

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

It's very sad and doesn't have to be this way.

O.W_Lancs's avatar

Which is the very point. Whatever looks 'normal' they go the opposite way.

In The Round's avatar

This is basically it in a nutshell.

The people clutching their pearls over a couple of facial piercings, dyed hair, and tattoos are laughable to me. Alternative fashion is nothing new, but I think the modern version of it lacks a sense of style, looks haphazard, and unoriginal. (Funny how the internet and social media have made everyone look the same - even those who are “subverting the status quo.”)

I’m not crazy about facial tattoos, but I would much rather interact with a man that has them than a man who is LARPing as a woman.

Amy Nesbitt's avatar

The tattoos emerging on my friend’s skin is a signal that she ain’t wealthy (she is) and that she is working-class (she ain’t). It’s woke 1.0. It hasn’t gone away.

Maria Rustica's avatar

It's not the internet that makes allegedly subversive youth conform to the 'subversive' aesthetics. Punk kids did that in the 80's and 90's, I noticed it and wondered how, if they wanted to be 'wild and free' it might be that they all looked exactly the same? and always had to wear black? It was comical. The truth of youth is that it is the most conforming of all human ages. Real rebellion happens in the first and the last years of life - when it happens at all.

Lon Guyland's avatar

Get on the bandwagon and express your individuality like everyone else!

Maria Rustica's avatar

Exactly.

Brian: "You are all individuals!"

Crowd: "We are all individuals!"

Man in crowd: "I'm not!"

O.W_Lancs's avatar

Yes! There's a YouTube channel called 'The War on Beauty', and one of her videos bemoans the loss of subculture.

Her point is that people are attacking the very idea of a mainstream culture. And without a mainstream culture you don't have counter/sub culture.

And there's no question but that sub cultures have always been alive with creativity and cool.

Sherrie Phillips's avatar

I’m thinking of different generations. We went from Victorian to Flapper. Later it was traditional to hippie. We’ve had Twiggy, then Madonna to name a couple. This isn’t the first time for girls to wear their underwear as outer wear. I don’t see anything much different. Every generation seems to rebel against the one before it. I’m fine letting them do their thing. Today, there’s a fashion for everyone. The one I can’t stand tho is when they bring out the Little House on the Prairie look. That is one I’d like to banish forever!

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

What's wrong with Little House on the Prairie? Why would you like to banish it forever? Also, if you read the article, you will see that, while we discussed fashion, the greater concern is the irreversible decisions that many young women are making, particularly inking large swaths of their bodies, as far up as necks and faces. This is a far cry from fashion, which can be changed in a snap.

Glitterpuppy's avatar

Picture yourself all tatted up and 70. You look like your aunts threadbare old rug…

Mimi's avatar

Perfect-100%

Glitterpuppy's avatar

Not much of an alternative, for sure. But, I agree. There will come a reckoning down the road for those that have disfigured themselves. So many look like they are past the point of no return. Sad.

Wendy Elizabeth Williams's avatar

It is called "a fad" and I had it pushed on me way back in 1978 and 1979!! Bisexual for two years, because all the cool kids did that...but it remained a fad and did not "take" with me and I returned to men! Still cared for my gay men friends...but sadly, they began to get sick from HIV.

Jj Kannot's avatar

AIDS was caused by hep 2 vaccines

Wendy Elizabeth Williams's avatar

Jj Kannot, dunno about that

I just know many of my friends died of it.

Jj Kannot's avatar

Hepatitis b shots. They were administered to the male gay contingent of the population in the 80.

The fuckshots, stickshots and poosters are exactly the same.

Viruses don't exist.

I had friends that died of AIDS, and all my friends and family are dying from the plugshots now.

Everything cycles, EVERYTHING.

IT IS UP TO US TO GET OFF THE TRAIN

O.W_Lancs's avatar

Yes. There's a lot of that. And does anyone know what the end goal of that is?

Enzo's avatar

Answer: Spiritual crisis.

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

There is, indeed, a spiritual crisis, but there is also a spiritual void, part of a gaping hole left open by a dearth of authoritative (not authoritarian) parenting. Parents have ceased being adults in the room so kids are making regrettable choices without guidance.

Kayla Park's avatar

This 100%. I was “raised” by a single mother who really never grew up herself. She was more interested in being my cool friend, than a mother who provided guidance. I have three tattoos, all done before I was 20, and I LOATHE them. I greatly regret that my skin is permanently marked and hope to have them removed one day.

DPD88's avatar

I think they started backing off when CPS defined discipline as child abuse.

Enzo's avatar

100% agreement

Wendy Lane's avatar

Food for thought... I am GenX and we sometimes are accused of this "not authoritarian" -gasp- parenting. I do not see many people considering the fact that many of us were raised by extremely authoritarian parents that bordered on or actually were abusive, both physically and emotionally/verbally. Personally, I resolved to NOT be like my parents when I raised my children. This does not mean my kids ran wild without any discipline. This does not mean there was never a spanking or a yell in my household. But I tried to skew more authoritative and that was actually what the psychology/culture of the time was pushing us to do. I would argue that the authoritarian uprising that many of us had was not the great thing that some are arguing it to be. Many of us bear the scars and have had to navigate a lot of baggage handed to us by our authoritarian parents. I don't think authoritarian parenting does anyone any favors, except maybe the parent who gets the satisfaction of a lockdown on their children.

Interestingly, the Millennials (my oldest daughter's age group) gravitated toward this helicopter parenting phenomena, seemingly an extreme backlash against the more permissive upraising they were given. Maybe every generation backlashes against the kind of parenting they had, in an attempt to do better that may backfire? It's very frustrating because we are all trying to do our best in the midst of constantly evolving and often contradictory studies and media messaging. It's good that we are having these conversations.

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Aug 26
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Kate E. Deeming's avatar

Thanks for this. I was just talking to an acquaintance about this yesterday. Both of ‘older’ generations and whilst we don’t want to judge young women- we worry for them. It’s the permanence of it that is most concerning. Whilst earlier generations might have played with concepts of ‘goth’ or the like it was merely a costume that could be given up as easily as adopted. With the piercings and tattoos not so much. A friend mentioned that some men from her church went to do some aid work in Africa and they had extensive tattoos - the African liaisons said it was not possible for them to help as their tattoos would be read as demonic.

Trick Henry's avatar

The US is in full decline. But a lot of it is cloaked by material wealth. People losing religion, abandoning cultural traditions, increasing stress and mental illness. It's just all part of the package of a civilizational collapse.

Some people think because we can all get giant TV screens and Wingstop delivered, everything is good. But all the metrics that matter: feelings of patriotism, religious participation, number of children, social trust, rampant obesity, all reveal America is in a tail spin. Men and women profoundly mutilating their bodies is just par for the course now.

Pro Bona Publica's avatar

I would suggest that many young women don't understand how wield the power of their femininity. The first group thinks it's all about sex and showing as much skin as possible. They feel like they understand what to do with the male attention.

The second group is terrified of it. The tattoos, the piercings, the baggy clothes ... I think it's a subconscious desire to be so ugly they won't get stared at, catcalled, or otherwise have to deal with male attention. Many F->M transitioners have experienced sexual abuse, and the desire to be a man is a misaimed desire to not be a victim of sexual harassment and abuse.

Illusivillusion's avatar

No its a desire to not be everyone else. You claim your style like anybody else and you'll wear clothes that have existed for less than 200 years and you'll rock hair styles that are less than 200 years old while listening to music that is less than 200 years old while these other people are incorporating styles from all of human history into their style and music.

if you actually look you'll notice, these eccentric people are on average more intelligent in some way, whether emotional intelligence or historical knowledge or otherwise. I mean look at all these comments bitching like babies about not realizing that none of these styles are new, in fact they're as old as human history. Dying hair, tattoos, piercings.. and every single aspect of the lgbtq for that matter have existed longer than the family line of anybody on this thread. These arguments in this thread are littered with flavorless opinions that only exist because of white colonialism. Npc's repeating opinions they never had the individuality mindset to form on their own. 🤷

Pro Bona Publica's avatar

If it was a desire to not look like everyone else, it wouldn't be a tribal uniform. And when I see a gal with pink hair and a nose ring wearing 3' panniers and stays, I'll buy that she's happily raiding past centuries for fashion and not just trying to uglify herself.

Personally though, I say let your freak fly. It lets me point out to my son which women to avoid.

Illusivillusion's avatar

Its not a tribal uniform, thats why theres a clear difference between punk-ish, goth-ish-scene-ish-emo-ish-biker-ish.

Colored hair is a tradition thats older than your family line, so are piercings & tattoos.

You're not wrong across the board tho, yes SOME off them are seeking to uglify themselves because people like you have sons and fathers who rape others and cause trauma to some are tired of being looked at by people who have less morals than a bear lol

Glitterpuppy's avatar

You need to learn some sociology. You are so off base, I know I’m wasting my time entering into a debate with someone who has such views as you. I wish you the best. You are going to need it.

Illusivillusion's avatar

That's code for "I dont actually have an argument to stand" is that why you wasted your time to tell me you won't waste your time... lol

Glitterpuppy's avatar

Yes, you called me out. I try not to present my arguments on some people. Have a nice life. Kiss your cat for me.

Glitterpuppy's avatar

I did happen to notice the women that were covering up happened to be obese. Possibly they are afraid of their poor image also

MLisa's avatar

They look like the freak side show at the circus! I'm done looking at it. I won't go to certain restaurants if the wait staff has a bunch of facial piercings and noticeable tattoos. I will stand in a line 10 deep at the grocery store for the lady who looks presentable rather than check through the line with a cashier who looks like a freak.

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

You make a good point that the acts of tatooing and copious piercings impact those around the primary individuals. And that seems to be part of the point.

Wendy Lane's avatar

I'm curious how a person's body art impacts those around them? That seems like that is more the problem of the offended person that chooses to be offended? (I have zero tattoos and blonde hair, for what it's worth.) I am guilty of making assessments that may or may not be true based on looks (we all are) but I also acknowledge that there is nothing objectively bad about any of it. It is shaped by cultural standards and the eye of the beholder. We may find the superficial body decor of others to be off-putting but I'm honestly surprised to see, for example, a person actively avoiding a pierced/tattooed person in a retail setting. That seems a bit over the top to me, but to each their own.

User's avatar
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Aug 31
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Glitterpuppy's avatar

So, you can diagnose one’s need for therapy by reading their emotional outpouring? You must be a magical wizard of sorts. Can you also predict their height and shoe size?

DPD88's avatar

I have a couple of Razor backed shirts and I have Razor backed bras to wear with them. I could not stand to have my bra straps showing under my tops. Also I loved the women's clothing from the 50"s. Did you ever see the movie Rear Window. Grace Kelly wore the most beautiful dresses in that movie. Boy I wish they would bring back dresses that looked like that again.

Lisa Simeone's avatar

Those of us who love vintage clothing wear those kinds of dresses. There are also many vintage repro sites that sell beautiful facsimiles.

DPD88's avatar

Thank you for letting me know about the vintage sites.

Concerned Citizen's avatar

Racer back, not razor back.

DPD88's avatar

Thank you for the clarification.

AP's avatar

Grace Kelly 😍

Mike F's avatar

I will never understand the fascination with covering your body in tatoos and dying your hair crazy colors. Ditto for crazy piercings.

Peter Hemmingson's avatar

Probably showing my age a bit, but when I was a kid, people with tattoos were either: ex-military; convicts; strippers; or bull dykes (the kind of women [sic] who roll their own tampons and kickstart their own menstrual cycles).

Then punk rockers started getting inked as part of their self-anointed role as aggressive challengers. Then metlers took on the mantle.

Then lawyers, doctors, and accountants started getting little discreet tattoos on the inside of wrists, ankles, hips, and forearms.

Suddenly, what started out as ‘edgy’ had become mainstream. Then those who wanted to make an edgy public declaration of how ‘countercultural’ they were started tattooing their necks and faces. And going in for multiple visible piercings.

Pathetic tryhards.

Ronda Wells MD's avatar

I wish they could see what they’re going to look like in forty years. When those tattoos sag with the skin, ear lobes with holes droop even more, and scars will proliferate once they stop sticking rings and other things in the holes. Won’t be pretty.

Natalya Murakhver's avatar

Tragic but true.

Anna Van Zee's avatar

This chosen ugly is really stupid. It's not like the only two choices are artificial, "filtered beauty" and looking hideous! It's also sad that so many young people are so heavy.

They should be in their physical prime, but they treat the great gift of a functioning body like a garbage dump, and spend most of their waking moments looking at screens.

I'm so glad I grew up when I did! And parents who are too scared to act like a parent are also pretty sad.

Glitterpuppy's avatar

Ultimately, the chickens come home to roost. The labor market can be a cruel teacher. Unless you want to be a career barista……..

Karen Hart's avatar

The rise in tattoos is very concerning because tattoos can cause cancer. I used to tell people getting tattoos to really research it and make sure they are getting the best (and not make stupid, drunk decisions) but I thought of it more of a question of appearance than of health. New research has shown that health concerns are what you should first consider.

Shell's avatar

I’m sad for my boys. They tell me there are few desirable women out there who are not femininazis

Jay's avatar

At least in previous generations hairspray washed out, clothing could be changed. I sense a middle age of regret in the horizon. Maybe the old septum piercing will heal.

ExSoCaldude's avatar

Same with getting inked. That butterfly you got at age 18, turns into a condor at age 60.

ExSoCaldude's avatar

I wonder why I can't get a job? Looking like you got hit in the face with a tackle box, may be your first clue.

Andrew's avatar

Maybe they don’t actually want a job?

ExSoCaldude's avatar

Maybe they don't want a guy.

Neo's avatar

"Looking like you got hit in the face with a tackle box" Fucking hilarious! But so true!

ExSoCaldude's avatar

Thanx! I'd love to have a 5lb magnet and see what happens.

Glitterpuppy's avatar

Job? I don needs no stinkin’ job!

Sweet Caroline's avatar

This hits home for me. I have spent years trying to sort this phenomena of ugly and tattoos, particularly on young women. Primarily b/c my teen daughter fell under this spell of baggy black hoodies in high school, came out of it with young love then dove back in deeper with a vengeance during what I call the pandemic-forced isolation-social justice-victimhood-hierarchy of oppression-societal-destruction-era. There are myriad reasons why girls have taken up this trend and I suppose I am happy to say in my daughter’s case she is coming back around at least to expressions of beauty and love in her tattoos. Sigh. But not before hitting rock bottom. And I mean a breath away from the very last option of the bottom….

For my daughter it’s the lie of the cult of gender ideology fueled by the entirety of our Democratic Party of government, teachers, social media, doctors, psychologists and most especially Planned Parenthood, not to mention the perverted male billionaires funding the whole trans human gender industry. She was convinced to hate her body b/c of the awkwardness of adolescence and trying to fit in. Then depression as her 18 year old experiences were taken from her by law and she fell under the spell of BLM telling her she was a privileged oppressor. What to do?? Identify as a victim, of course! She earned the social credit, took measures to make her body unwell, then claimed ‘poor me, this condition shortens my life and look how I suffer.’ All the while everyone around her celebrated her as brave and righteous b/c her family must surely reject her. We did no such thing. The highlighter pink and yellow hair, shaved of course, or maybe black and white polka dots, the nose ring, the ugly Vans brand of clothing and the ugly tattoos. So many of them. Arms and shins. So ugly. The purpose?? To alert everyone to her distress and victim hood, medical and psychiatric problems. To find fellow sufferers. The tattoos are an announcement- See me! See my suffering! The medical system had criminally medicated her.

In our situation though, we were absolutely authoritative and loving parents. From day one. Our other children did not fall for this scam on young people. Authoritative parenting and restriction on technology, which we did, is not a guaranteed a protection from the power of corrupt society once your child is no longer living in your home. It’s been a living hell but we have crawled out of the better side, thanks to my persuasion that medication made her worse and, perhaps due to the values we had instilled when she was young. She is now accepting herself as a healthy female who does not need to be a makeup clad, curvy hipped large breasted, body obsessed woman. She can be her fantastic strong adorable self. She became pregnant and the female/ mother switch flipped ON! She is the best mother in the world. Her child is our dream and she is healthier than ever back to wearing feminine, flattering clothes in sweet colors that I will gladly spend a fortune on. Now she likes to present as cheerful and fun. And the tattoos? Well, now they depict love and precious life. I will take it.

E. Hillman's avatar

So glad to hear about her recovery, and good job you for being a beacon to bring her back to saner shores!